Approaching the age of thirty and starting my first post doc job soon, I am thinking about my future plans. Although I realize it might be too soon for me now to know exactly where I will be in five years from now, I think it’s never early enough to at least try to do some time and planning management. There are some important factors within me as a person and a scientist motivating me to stay in the academic world; I really enjoy doing the experiments, as well as writing papers and exchanging my knowledge with colleagues. However, this might not be enough to succeed as a scientist within the academic world.
Simply 'liking' performing science just isn’t enough…which skills do we need to develop during our post doc time to become a good scientist? And how many papers do we need to publish in order to be rated as 'successful'? Within which journals, and which impact factors? Should we set up a goal, let’s say 'during the first post doc period you need 2 high impact factor papers, otherwise grant application afterwards might be too difficult to achieve'? Or is an innovative and brilliant idea enough to receive a grant and pursue a career in the academia? How about getting into the tenure track; how many post doc positions before entering the tenure track and how long should we wait before getting the opportunity to do this? And last but not least, when should one give up if things do not seem to work out as expected….sure before he/she is too old to enter the job market in other fields like pharma and industry…
One more thing I would like to add, is that in science, there is no way to stay where you are. You are always pushed to go higher up the ladder, and if you want to stay where you are, you are considered to be moving backwards or uninterested. For example, you cannot stay a postdoc for the rest of your life. Therefore, once you realise that you do not want to become a groupleader, since you do not want to work 60 hours a week at least, or just am not good enough, you will have to look for something else. The sad thing for science is that in this group of people, there are valuable people in this group that are lost in this way. To use metaphores, a soccer team needs steady players who stay within the team for a longer time, it cannot succeed with just star players. But this is the culture in science, take it or leave it (or so it seems?)
I think your comment is absolutely right on spot! Most scientist (and for that matter many other people to) are heavily relying on reason and thinking. That is very useful for science but with matters of the heart it is not working very well...
That is why I pay attention in my training programs on getting scientist in touch with their own intuition. It always strikes me that people have their own inner compass and somehow 'know' (not rationally) what direction they are looking for. And of course there are some methods that can help you with getting in though with that compass. I also let people experience how their own rational mind can obstruct them in finding and listening to their desires and how to deal with all these 'voices in the head' which comment on every dicision you attempt to take.
By the way: a very nice metaphore about the auto-pilot. I fully agree that it is always possible to set yourself back behind the steering wheel!
Dear Roel, Thanks for picking out the headlines of my comment. We are very much used in science to ignore the heart as much as possible and to rely on reason, on facts. Maybe that makes it even more difficult for us to listen to our heart and interpret it well. What's essential though, is that in life decisions there are no golden rules, because nobody can redo his/her life and try the other option in order to find out what the difference was (so which was the right choice). Although this can be difficult to swallow for a scientist, at the same time this is our freedom: there are no right choices, only your choices. We have only one life to live and nobody can live it for us. And we will have to live with the result (and maybe some around us sometimes). At the same time others may be benefitting from our choices (or not), so there may be considerable interest from outside to direct our decisions (even without us knowing these interests). Therefore it is very wise to take some time every now and then and think about where you are going and whether you really want to go there. Because before you know it somebody else has taken the steering wheel of your life (and left you on auto-pilot). But fortunately, you can retake the responsibility over your life again and just turn the auto-pilot off any moment you want (although some people are very clever at putting hurdles in your way that may seem to be impossible to overcome). For me the PCDI meetings have been a great opportunity to do so. Very stimulating and not biased in a specific direction but keeping all options open and the choices with the people where they belong.
Dear Bertie, Thanks for your valuable comment. Indeed, in my experience it is very true that opportunities can be created. And there are no such things as 'wrong decisions' in my opinion since there is always a possibility to move in another direction if you do not like the situation you find yourself in. I did that myself twice and learned a lot from it. And indeed, your heart is the most trustworthy advisor... This means that you need to get in contact with your heart though. Some people get so much stuck in their own mind-struggles (and scientist in general are good at it, since thinking is their core business), that it is dificult to hear what the heart wants to say. Fortunately there are many ways to set the mind-struggles aside for a while...
It can also feel as a big jump to follow your heart, since it might point to directions which are unknown teritory and feel scary. Then it takes courage to listen to your heart. By the way, I define courage as "fear + action" in which the "plus" sign is important. With that I mean that it is not a bad thing that you are afraid for a certain decision and fear does not have to go away. Just recognize that you are afraid and still take action. (Note that action can also mean a wholeheartedly decision to stay in science or a decision to do nothing for the moment).
Dear Sabina and Roel, There are two ways of "leaving hardcore science" as I see it. I have been at both positions at least, no doubt there can still be more. One starts with the feeling that you truly have lost the believe that you can actually make it. You feel worn out and, although you really do not want to leave science, you feel that you cannot raise the energy anymore to go for the chalenges that lie ahead. That is a very negative feeling. It is better not to get at that point. When it stays that way too long, for sure you will not make it anymore (unless something changes dramatically). Strange enough: this feeling can pass, so this does not necessarily mean that this is the end of the line. Do not get fooled by it if science is what you really want. But together with the feeling sometimes you find yourself in a situation where there really are no more realistic options left (although a bit of creativity can change a lot!). In this case the only thing you can do is find the possibility that is most close to your whishes and make the best of it. It may even turn out not to be bad as you thought. Another way is when you are in the middle of some really exciting results and no way you would want to leave science at this moment. However, you really find yourself before some really nice option. In this case you really have to think about what you expect from life and how to get there as quickly as you can. Sometimes the only way of not getting at a dead end is taking those opportunities when they come. Start a new adventure when it is calling to you can be a great way to leave science. And I totally agree with the previous comment that leaving science is too negative a statement, because outside of the rat-race there is a lot of science to take advantage of and enjoy. So the main message is: you really do not know when to leave science. You just have to take your best chances and see where they bring you (allthough this may sound more passive than I mean it: there are a lot of opportunities to be created! Do not forget about them!). There is no way you will know in advance that you have taken the right choice. Ask yourself the critical question of what you want with your life and follow your hart. But when you have made a decision, at least you will know whether you like the new situation or not. And if you do not like it (whether the decision was staying or out), there are other possibilities to change (again).
Thanks for your comment. I fully agree with you! It would be much better to talk about 'a next step' rather than 'leaving science' which has a negative connotation to it.
In my humble opinion the term "leaving science", as accepted as it may be, gives a negative sound to this step in ones career/life. If you come to the conclusion that your future is not in science, due to other interests, lacking abilities or anything, it is a good thing that you find something that you are interested in an possibly very good at. This is not leaving science, but rather finding your path, pursuing your true goal (both great retreat titles by the way ;-)) and should not be named in such a negative way.
It is with pleasure that I read your post. I certainly understand and recognize your questions. I have a few thoughts that I would like to share with you.
Just like many postdocs I worked in science because I liked doing experiments, discussing research with colleagues and so on. But as everybody knows, there is always the pressure of ‘publish or parish’. Without realizing it very consciously, I was trying to be ‘successful’ by working very hard and hoping for these papers to get accepted in high-impact journals. What being successful actually meant, I was not sure... Later on I realized that there are no clearly defined standards. Perhaps you write this great article in a high-impact journal but then there is always this other postdoc who has one more publication in Cell, Science or Nature. In other words, it is never enough, and running after an undefined standard can cause a lot of stress . Another difficulty is that the judgement of being successful is put in someone else’s hands. Let it be the person who judges your grant proposal or the university who should give you this staff position. If you do not get the grant or the long-awaited staff position, as a postdoc you may feel that you have failed and finally should ‘give up’. Unfortunately, this is a rather awkward/negative position for further career steps; you start hunting for a job with the subconscious feeling that you have not been good enough. Needless to say that if you have this feeling, the person who interviews you for a job will probably agree with you…
I would suggest that this whole way of thinking needs some revision. Although it is true that you get judged in science all the time, it is possible to change your thinking of yourself and the academic. First of all, by letting go the idea that there is a number of publications that you should reach. The simple facts are that about 85% of all postdocs want a career in academia, whereas only 20-30% get there. Did this 60% of the postdocs fail? I doubt it.
Why do many postdocs have the tendency to ‘ignore’ these percentages? Why do they bring themselves in the situation where they have the feeling that they finally should give up and leave science? Perhaps it is easier to work very hard and ‘forget’ the inconvenient figures about careers in science. Second, in some environments it is better not to talk out loud that you are aware of a world outside academia and the fact that it is wise to consider other career options, since this might endanger your academic career. Third, leaving science can be a sad and difficult process that requires mourning, just like any other ‘goodbye’. Most postdocs have rather intimate relationships with science and consider science as a kind of love of their life. Unfortunately, breaking up is never easy… In this respect the academic environment is not a great help to cheer you up. Most academics are keen to make you believe that: 1) the only enjoyable job is that of a scientist. In other words: you will never find another love. 2) you failed and you were not good enough for your lover, and 3) your lover (academia) never wants you back if you leave her. I can wholeheartedly say that none of these three are absolute truths. For sure, none of them were in my case.
For this reason I would highly recommend that once in a while you come to a standstill and reflect on yourself. This is not as easy as it sounds. It might feel unsettling, because it confronts you with some difficult questions about working in science. Of course, many postdocs chose wholeheartedly for science. Yet, even in this case it is good to realize that there are more environments in which you can enjoy the qualities that you use as a researcher.
Exploring companies where you can work for may answer the question: “where can I work?”, but I believe that the question “what do I really want” is a more important one to ask oneself. Speaking to postdocs I often get the feeling that deep in their hearts, they do know what they want. For example: working in an environment that is not characterized by a rat-race for publications. Or perhaps they want a job that feels more purposeful than writing a publication for the sake of a longer publication list. Some wish to do work that is more oriented to working with people. Most of the time, these wishes are immediately put aside as they seem unrealistic or scary to mention in an academic environment. From my experience (and that of many other former postdocs) I can say that there is a big chance that dreams come true if you take them seriously.
So to come back on your question, I believe there might be good reasons to leave science other than “I failed to get myself a position in academia”. Most postdocs have little working experience outside academia and get frightened by the idea of working in a company or somewhere else. I know the feeling: I was shouting very hard myself that industry is only about money making, losing your freedom and so on. A few years later, I realize that I simply missed some skills to work somewhere else and that I was afraid to enter the big wide world outside academia. There is nothing wrong with that. I just needed some more time to take the big jump.
In the end, I took the jump and it brought me to where I am now. My idea of ‘working with people’ is combined with my knowledge of the academic world: I develop and give training programs for scientists and help them to see the ‘person behind the scientist’. For example: one of my training programs is called: “the postdoc of the future” which deals with that familiar question for postdocs: how do I shape my career? And it is great work! It is very fulfilling to see postdocs who leave a training or individual coaching with twinkling eyes…
Well, this became a bit a long piece but I hope it gives you some food for thought. And I very much welcome you all to give your comments about this subject!
Roel Breuls Trainer, coach and advisor Email: rgm.breulsvumc.nl (For more information see: http://www.vumc.nl/afdelingen/AmstelAcademie/CLE/wetenschapeng/)
PS: A year after I left academia I was offered UD positions at two different universities (which I did not accept)...
Comments
I think your comment is absolutely right on spot! Most scientist (and for that matter many other people to) are heavily relying on reason and thinking. That is very useful for science but with matters of the heart it is not working very well...
That is why I pay attention in my training programs on getting scientist in touch with their own intuition. It always strikes me that people have their own inner compass and somehow 'know' (not rationally) what direction they are looking for. And of course there are some methods that can help you with getting in though with that compass. I also let people experience how their own rational mind can obstruct them in finding and listening to their desires and how to deal with all these 'voices in the head' which comment on every dicision you attempt to take.
By the way: a very nice metaphore about the auto-pilot. I fully agree that it is always possible to set yourself back behind the steering wheel!
Thanks for picking out the headlines of my comment. We are very much used in science to ignore the heart as much as possible and to rely on reason, on facts. Maybe that makes it even more difficult for us to listen to our heart and interpret it well.
What's essential though, is that in life decisions there are no golden rules, because nobody can redo his/her life and try the other option in order to find out what the difference was (so which was the right choice). Although this can be difficult to swallow for a scientist, at the same time this is our freedom: there are no right choices, only your choices. We have only one life to live and nobody can live it for us. And we will have to live with the result (and maybe some around us sometimes). At the same time others may be benefitting from our choices (or not), so there may be considerable interest from outside to direct our decisions (even without us knowing these interests). Therefore it is very wise to take some time every now and then and think about where you are going and whether you really want to go there. Because before you know it somebody else has taken the steering wheel of your life (and left you on auto-pilot). But fortunately, you can retake the responsibility over your life again and just turn the auto-pilot off any moment you want (although some people are very clever at putting hurdles in your way that may seem to be impossible to overcome). For me the PCDI meetings have been a great opportunity to do so. Very stimulating and not biased in a specific direction but keeping all options open and the choices with the people where they belong.
Thanks for your valuable comment. Indeed, in my experience it is very true that opportunities can be created. And there are no such things as 'wrong decisions' in my opinion since there is always a possibility to move in another direction if you do not like the situation you find yourself in. I did that myself twice and learned a lot from it. And indeed, your heart is the most trustworthy advisor... This means that you need to get in contact with your heart though. Some people get so much stuck in their own mind-struggles (and scientist in general are good at it, since thinking is their core business), that it is dificult to hear what the heart wants to say. Fortunately there are many ways to set the mind-struggles aside for a while...
It can also feel as a big jump to follow your heart, since it might point to directions which are unknown teritory and feel scary. Then it takes courage to listen to your heart. By the way, I define courage as "fear + action" in which the "plus" sign is important. With that I mean that it is not a bad thing that you are afraid for a certain decision and fear does not have to go away. Just recognize that you are afraid and still take action. (Note that action can also mean a wholeheartedly decision to stay in science or a decision to do nothing for the moment).
There are two ways of "leaving hardcore science" as I see it. I have been at both positions at least, no doubt there can still be more. One starts with the feeling that you truly have lost the believe that you can actually make it. You feel worn out and, although you really do not want to leave science, you feel that you cannot raise the energy anymore to go for the chalenges that lie ahead. That is a very negative feeling. It is better not to get at that point. When it stays that way too long, for sure you will not make it anymore (unless something changes dramatically). Strange enough: this feeling can pass, so this does not necessarily mean that this is the end of the line. Do not get fooled by it if science is what you really want. But together with the feeling sometimes you find yourself in a situation where there really are no more realistic options left (although a bit of creativity can change a lot!). In this case the only thing you can do is find the possibility that is most close to your whishes and make the best of it. It may even turn out not to be bad as you thought. Another way is when you are in the middle of some really exciting results and no way you would want to leave science at this moment. However, you really find yourself before some really nice option. In this case you really have to think about what you expect from life and how to get there as quickly as you can. Sometimes the only way of not getting at a dead end is taking those opportunities when they come. Start a new adventure when it is calling to you can be a great way to leave science. And I totally agree with the previous comment that leaving science is too negative a statement, because outside of the rat-race there is a lot of science to take advantage of and enjoy.
So the main message is: you really do not know when to leave science. You just have to take your best chances and see where they bring you (allthough this may sound more passive than I mean it: there are a lot of opportunities to be created! Do not forget about them!). There is no way you will know in advance that you have taken the right choice. Ask yourself the critical question of what you want with your life and follow your hart. But when you have made a decision, at least you will know whether you like the new situation or not. And if you do not like it (whether the decision was staying or out), there are other possibilities to change (again).
Thanks for your comment. I fully agree with you! It would be much better to talk about 'a next step' rather than 'leaving science' which has a negative connotation to it.
It is with pleasure that I read your post. I certainly understand and recognize your questions. I have a few thoughts that I would like to share with you.
Just like many postdocs I worked in science because I liked doing experiments, discussing research with colleagues and so on. But as everybody knows, there is always the pressure of ‘publish or parish’. Without realizing it very consciously, I was trying to be ‘successful’ by working very hard and hoping for these papers to get accepted in high-impact journals. What being successful actually meant, I was not sure... Later on I realized that there are no clearly defined standards. Perhaps you write this great article in a high-impact journal but then there is always this other postdoc who has one more publication in Cell, Science or Nature. In other words, it is never enough, and running after an undefined standard can cause a lot of stress
.
Another difficulty is that the judgement of being successful is put in someone else’s hands. Let it be the person who judges your grant proposal or the university who should give you this staff position. If you do not get the grant or the long-awaited staff position, as a postdoc you may feel that you have failed and finally should ‘give up’. Unfortunately, this is a rather awkward/negative position for further career steps; you start hunting for a job with the subconscious feeling that you have not been good enough. Needless to say that if you have this feeling, the person who interviews you for a job will probably agree with you…
I would suggest that this whole way of thinking needs some revision. Although it is true that you get judged in science all the time, it is possible to change your thinking of yourself and the academic. First of all, by letting go the idea that there is a number of publications that you should reach. The simple facts are that about 85% of all postdocs want a career in academia, whereas only 20-30% get there. Did this 60% of the postdocs fail? I doubt it.
Why do many postdocs have the tendency to ‘ignore’ these percentages? Why do they bring themselves in the situation where they have the feeling that they finally should give up and leave science? Perhaps it is easier to work very hard and ‘forget’ the inconvenient figures about careers in science. Second, in some environments it is better not to talk out loud that you are aware of a world outside academia and the fact that it is wise to consider other career options, since this might endanger your academic career. Third, leaving science can be a sad and difficult process that requires mourning, just like any other ‘goodbye’. Most postdocs have rather intimate relationships with science and consider science as a kind of love of their life. Unfortunately, breaking up is never easy… In this respect the academic environment is not a great help to cheer you up. Most academics are keen to make you believe that:
1) the only enjoyable job is that of a scientist. In other words: you will never find another love.
2) you failed and you were not good enough for your lover, and
3) your lover (academia) never wants you back if you leave her.
I can wholeheartedly say that none of these three are absolute truths. For sure, none of them were in my case.
For this reason I would highly recommend that once in a while you come to a standstill and reflect on yourself. This is not as easy as it sounds. It might feel unsettling, because it confronts you with some difficult questions about working in science. Of course, many postdocs chose wholeheartedly for science. Yet, even in this case it is good to realize that there are more environments in which you can enjoy the qualities that you use as a researcher.
Exploring companies where you can work for may answer the question: “where can I work?”, but I believe that the question “what do I really want” is a more important one to ask oneself. Speaking to postdocs I often get the feeling that deep in their hearts, they do know what they want. For example: working in an environment that is not characterized by a rat-race for publications. Or perhaps they want a job that feels more purposeful than writing a publication for the sake of a longer publication list. Some wish to do work that is more oriented to working with people. Most of the time, these wishes are immediately put aside as they seem unrealistic or scary to mention in an academic environment. From my experience (and that of many other former postdocs) I can say that there is a big chance that dreams come true if you take them seriously.
So to come back on your question, I believe there might be good reasons to leave science other than “I failed to get myself a position in academia”. Most postdocs have little working experience outside academia and get frightened by the idea of working in a company or somewhere else. I know the feeling: I was shouting very hard myself that industry is only about money making, losing your freedom and so on. A few years later, I realize that I simply missed some skills to work somewhere else and that I was afraid to enter the big wide world outside academia. There is nothing wrong with that. I just needed some more time to take the big jump.
In the end, I took the jump and it brought me to where I am now. My idea of ‘working with people’ is combined with my knowledge of the academic world: I develop and give training programs for scientists and help them to see the ‘person behind the scientist’. For example: one of my training programs is called: “the postdoc of the future” which deals with that familiar question for postdocs: how do I shape my career? And it is great work! It is very fulfilling to see postdocs who leave a training or individual coaching with twinkling eyes…
Well, this became a bit a long piece but I hope it gives you some food for thought. And I very much welcome you all to give your comments about this subject!
Roel Breuls
Trainer, coach and advisor
Email: rgm.breuls
(For more information see: http://www.vumc.nl/afdelingen/AmstelAcademie/CLE/wetenschapeng/)
PS: A year after I left academia I was offered UD positions at two different universities (which I did not accept)...